Design and Deploy Production-Ready Software This episode is sponsored by Pivotal. Michael has been a professional programmer and architect for over 15 years. I have friends–I'm sure you do have have–that are serious audiophiles and have really gone to great lengths to set up that type of environment. I'm your host, Craig Andera. It's almost like the live concert version of your album, right? One of the elements that I try to address is the question of risk and risk management. Or, if you want, you can point whatever blog reader you use to the Cognicast transcript feed and consume them in the written form - either way. Continue to carry us through the story arch of your series. You want to create a process that makes it easy to deal with. I think a lot of people are really paying close attention to it. MICHAEL: But I want to throw a different wrinkle at you. Michael Nygard. Presented at GOTO Berlin 2013. MICHAEL: Okay. @mtnygard. As much as I would like everyone to rewrite things in Clojure and use spec, I think we're going to be in a polyglot world for a long, long time. Actually, that's going to let people consume the show in whatever way they like best. ‎Michael Nygard: @mtnygard | Wide Awake Developers (Mike’s Blog) | The Cognitect Blog | Release It! Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 141 — Cognitect Blog Huffduffed by schoeffm on October 26th, 2018 In this episode, we talk to Michael Nygard … With just two machines, maybe we can build them both to be super reliable and have high quality parts and redundancy down to dual back planes and dual buses. The show is available on iTunes! Well, as we get started here, I just want to throw out a congratulations to the Zetawar project. You have even a higher level of negotiation to go through. What is this idea or set of ideas you're trying to get across? If you just look at Cognitect.com/cognicast, look at the episode. But if you're coming into it from a more traditional IT organization or a more traditional software architecture or structure, it can be really overwhelming. I actually do think that Agile development is a great way to handle things at the team scale. CRAIG: Right, right. We've been thinking a lot about spec recently, obviously clojure.spec. That makes it safe for you to explore the features of the word processor. It works fine for them. In discussions about change in a complex system I commonly hear people object, “We can’t do that because X.” (That statement often follows a passive-aggressive prelude such as “That’s all well and good” or “being tactical for a moment.” You can also subscribe to the podcast using our podcast feed. MICHAEL: Or maybe there was corrupted data that cost a lot of money to clean up. Congratulations on that. MICHAEL: Well, I think we jumped ahead a bit. Michael Nygard Architect @Cognitect & Author of the Best Seller "Release It!" CRAIG: Datomic has this, right? MICHAEL: The collected advice of The Cognicast. I'm going to undo that. This has been The Cognicast. Yeah, obviously it's something that we're capable of thinking about as a human level process. Hear Michael Nygard at QCon San Francisco, Michael Nygard strives to raise the bar and ease the pain for developers around the world. Design and Deploy Production-Ready Software.. technology effectively and humanely to build better futures. Maneuverable architecture - Michael Nygard (Cognitect, Inc.) Get The Microservices Video Collection now with O’Reilly online learning. So before we jump into the reason why we're having you on today, although obviously that's the discussion, let's go ahead with the initial question, which is about art. MICHAEL: I view it as important not just for correct functioning of systems, but for that without permission characteristic where I want every team to be able to deploy their systems whenever they want, and I want them to be able to communicate about how they act without permission. He didn't understand the nature of the just in time system because he had only a local perspective. technology effectively and humanely to build better futures. Michael has written and co-authored several books, including "97 Things Every Software Architect Should Know" and the best seller "Release It!, a book about building software that survives the real world.Michael works for Cognitect Inc., the company behind Clojure, ClojureScript, Pedestal, and … Well, not a divergence. MICHAEL: Which is, in the building metaphor you can think about the cranes and the scaffolding and the piles of materials that you use to construct the building as a temporary thing. In their case they're using Avro, which can actually load definitions dynamically and unpack the message according to that definition, so it's not just a documentation thing. I want to mention a couple things about EuroClojure. Michael Nygard . Copyright 2017, Cognitect, a Nu Holdings, Ltd. company. CRAIG: Right. This was the era of the tandem computer. Sort of once you had the credentials, and once you were able to talk to it, maybe it met your needs. As opposed to Bruce Dickenson yelling, "I can't hear you!". Maybe we have a bunch of different services, but they all have to share the same policy number. MICHAEL: Yeah. But another is that I think there's a sense in which what we do is fundamentally different from building a building in that I think it's maybe more like building a factory. CRAIG: But why wouldn't you, really? The one that doesn't break keeps running its software, making assumptions about being able to talk to the first one, and we start having to change our risk model from saying it's all or nothing, either the machine is working or it's not, to a more probabilistic approach. The problem with that viewpoint is it causes us to write code and keep it around for a lot longer than we should. Michael works for Cognitect Inc., the company behind Clojure, ClojureScript, Pedestal, and Datomic. I really probably shouldn't put too many words in your mouth. MICHAEL: A terrible idea because it's not undoable. Michael Nygard strives to raise the bar and ease the pain for developers around the world. But, increasingly, the workloads we're handling require horizontal scaling, not vertical scaling. That was the one I happened to use. Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 106 — Cognitect Blog Huffduffed by erichaberkorn on September 6th, 2016 In this episode, we talk to Michael Nygard about microservices and other MICHAEL: Yeah. You can continue to listen to it via your podcast application. They do. Really, you definitely are one of my favorite people to have conversations with. MICHAEL: Yeah. You alluded to kind of one of the approaches, one of the techniques, one of the tools that you can use to get some of this capability, in your book The Circuit Breaker Pattern, which I have used very successfully via Netflix's Hystrix library. One, it's a handshake to initiate a conversation just like a TCP three-phase handshake. MICHAEL: I'd like to have preview. It's a really bizarre concept for people that haven't run into it before. I only need to scale it to catch up within a reasonable SLA. Context ... about Cognitect. Follow (Aggregation is alpha and subject to change.) And so that's going to let you, if you want to subscribe to just the transcripts or, in addition, subscribe to the transcripts. In this episode of the O’Reilly Programming Podcast, I talk with Michael Nygard, a software architect at Cognitect. We talk to Michael Nygard about simulation testing. But that's a great one, and I totally agree with you that it's definitely useful. I actually see the differences as being almost entirely non-technical and about process and permission. It behaves a lot more like a liability than an asset, so I really like to have the idea that we need to be refreshing our code, tearing it apart, throwing away piece-by-piece, and rebuilding it piece-by-piece more or less continuously. CRAIG: Yeah. We'll go even a step further. Well, there went the entire just in time system because one guy acted in his own self interest and harmed the organization. Interesting. CRAIG: You know, I know. Visibility into the consequences of the action you're about to take is even better. CRAIG: Usually it's some sort of perceived or actual threat or risk. You need to be able to move the pieces around so you can make different things because you're building a thing that actually, when run, produces the desired effect. Meaning, just like the systems we create for our users inside a company, those are the production systems by which our users do their job. We get a lot of really great advice, and I have to say I would definitely count your advice that ended Episode 100 among some of the best that we've gotten. CRAIG: How do you protect yourself against that failure? A component is an entity that belongs to some other entity, and has no independent lifecycle. You can be in an organization where every single person you meet is interested in promoting the interest of the overall organization. Yup. Clearly you think deeply about this stuff. They're also kind of self-supporting, right? MICHAEL: You can do a speculative value of the DB, so there are a couple of other principles to creating safety. I definitely can. Let us know if you like that, if you have a problem with it, or really anything about the show. We are pleased to announce today that Cognitect and Nubank will be sponsoring dozens of contributors to the Clojure ecosystem with regular monthly support.. Open source is a critical part of the economy but it is an ecosystem still without a viable economic model. I can't actually remember off the top of my head. But this misses the real benefit around maneuverability, argued Michael Nygard, an enterprise architect with Cognitect. What we usually find is that it's some breakdown in boundaries where this team was able to do something that they couldn't fix themselves. Clients Services Technologies Blog Cognicast Contact About. It worked great. But the other way is to say, "When I call you, I'm asking for permission to talk to you and, if you don't pick up, you've denied that permission.". Sometimes they're serving different populations, so maybe you split things up geographically. The whole approach to microservices says no. It's the abnormal state. … If you're thinking about giving a talk, and you should, make sure you get your proposal in before that deadline. Michael Nygard knows this—which is why he's turned to the language of warfare to describe the ongoing campaign that is the agile workflow. Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 106 — Cognitect Blog Huffduffed by erichaberkorn on September 6th, 2016 In this episode, we talk to Michael Nygard about microservices and other CRAIG: Hmm. If any two pieces of it have a bad day, they have the same birthday, and so that probability very quickly goes rapidly towards 100%, as the number of pieces involved moves above some fairly small number. They created problems for other people. People can create accounts. MICHAEL: No, I think I've said quite a bit, and I'm going to leave it there and save the rest for the next cast. 0 Likes. Block user. Hope you find that helpful. Well, welcome, everybody. Where are the circuit breakers against someone getting yelled at and deciding to take action to avoid getting yelled at again from doing that sort of thing? Right. One of the questions that really vexes me, and maybe our listeners can write comments about how to avoid this, but how do we find high performance methods that are robust and self-correcting against single individuals who operate not in accord with the method? MICHAEL: You may be in the middle of swapping out a bunch of hardware as part of a routine refresh cycle and then some other piece of equipment fails that tries to redirect all the load to the machines that you're swapping out. That means I can only go talk to one place to say, "I want to exchange this policy number for information about the policy." But it's also remarkably practical, and so that is an excellent addition to our rapidly growing stable of really good advice, so thanks for that. The other thing is I can get behind a little bit and catch up, so I don't need to scale my service to match the peak demand or the sum of the peak demands of all of my consumers. Well, I think then we'll do what I usually do, which is definitely want to have you back on, for sure, even maybe more so in this case than is normally the case, although it's always sincerely meant. In this episode of the O’Reilly Programming Podcast, I talk with Michael Nygard, a software architect at Cognitect.He has spoken about “architecture without an end state” at numerous O’Reilly Software Architecture … This is an example where I'm like, okay, well, how would I apply that to dependencies? MICHAEL: Well, the next piece that we really haven't talked about is a question of sort of durability of the software and whether we should think of it as an asset or a liability. And it worked. What are the preconditions that have to be there? I'm not going to go through all of them now or people won't have a reason to read Part 11. We frequently talk about Clojure, ClojureScript, Datomic, agile software development, ... Michael Nygard - Cognicast Episode 141. CRAIG: Yeah, there we go. CRAIG: Yeah. Yeah, legacy systems in Java, really, they can't make changes any more. Cognitect, Inc. Michael Nygard strives to raise the bar and ease the pain for developers around the world. That is the question. I think that's a great idea. Okay, so this is something that I wondered about when I was reading the article. Datomic's transaction time models the time at which data was recorded. There went the entire just in time system because he had only a local perspective that analogies imperfect. 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